Jrue Holiday has reportedly signed a 4 year 135m extension to stay with the Celtics longterm. Mike and Jim explores what this means for the Celtics roster buidling going forward (including Derrick White's future) is all broken down in this episode.
We also look ahead to the final week of the regular season and possible first round matchups for the Celtics.
Jrue Holiday has reportedly signed a 4 year 135m extension to stay with the Celtics longterm. Mike and Jim explores what this means for the Celtics roster buidling going forward (including Derrick White's future) is all broken down in this episode.
We also look ahead to the final week of the regular season and possible first round matchups for the Celtics.
You're listening to. They're gonna call it a hard foul. They're gonna call it a hard foul, Offering in-depth analysis on all things Boston Celtics With your hosts Jim and Mike Quigley.
Speaker 2:Hey, mike, we are back for an episode of Hard Foul here and you know we're gearing up for the playoffs. We're in the last less than a week left in the regular season. Three games to go and we have some breaking news from last night. The Celtics have re-upped Drew Holiday for four more years at an average of about $37 million a year. He will rip up his player option for next year and actually reduce his salary next season. So next season he would have been slated to make $37 million. Now, under this new deal, with his player option ripped up, his first year of this extension will be $30 million.
Speaker 2:So the trade that brought us Drew Holiday as soon as he was an extension-eligible player, the Celtics locked him up. They said they were going to do that at the trade when they picked him up. The intention was to keep him here long term and obviously this feels like a place Drew Holliday wants to be. So, mike, let's stop there, and then I think we can pivot to talking about the playoffs and the end of the regular season and some of the more interesting storylines that are left. So your thoughts? Drew holiday.
Speaker 1:Hey, jim, before I share my thoughts, can you just give me I don't know if you're able to do a breakdown of what the implications for this are as far as keeping other guys in the future? Obviously Tatum is going to be fine. He'll get his super max. But when you think about a guy like Derek White, for instance maybe focus there how does this contract impact that move forward, and what is White's contract overall look like as far as how long he'll be with the Celtics?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah. So it's a couple different things, I think. So I think, initially, the first thing Celtics fans should know and feel good about is that this ownership is, to me, is going as far in as they can. This is going well, well into the tax. They see an opportunity to win championships. You know they are saving considerable tax I think $35 million in the tax next season, with Hall Day's salary being reduced a bit. So that's something at least to keep in mind. But you know, if you're a fan of a team and you have a good team with the salary structure that the Celtics have and the cap implications, this is what you want to see out of ownership. So I think that's the initial positive you have to take away. And this is what the going rate would be for Holliday, maybe even a little bit more, frankly, if you get into a bit of war for this guy and other contenders are looking to add him.
Speaker 2:So I think people are going to say, oh my God, on the cost he brings things to the teams that you know can't be measured in the stat box. He's certainly a leader, a great teammate. You know he's changed the way he's played completely this season defensively, where he's just been a guy that's kind of been stuck on the best player and has to kind of chase him around. He's been asked to do a lot of different things A great corner three-point shooter so I think in that respect you've got to be happy. As far as Derek White, there's a couple things. So I know initial reactions to this is I'd rather have Derek White. Yeah, I said this before the holiday trade. This is how people should feel after watching him. This season Derek White has been an excellent player, a borderline all-star, but if he's smart and I think he is he's not signing any extension that isn't between $40 to $45 million a year with the Celtics and the Celtics I don't believe can offer that right now because of the extension eligible rules. I think White is.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because he wouldn't be a first-team or second-team all-NBA.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so you can't increase his salary by X percentage, and so he's only at $22 million now. So we're talking about 100% raise essentially, and so I think he almost definitely will go to free agency. This is his one big crack at the can of making a ton of money. He may never get that again Doesn't mean the Celtics can't find a way, when he gets to free agency, to bring him back at that number. What they'll have to do at that point, you know Holliday's contract will be tradable. Maybe they start thinking about moving Jalen Brown. I don't know. It's kind of a problem pushed to another day, I think.
Speaker 1:When is that point? That's what I'm trying to figure out.
Speaker 2:So it's not this offseason, it'll be the next offseason, okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think Celtics fans need to accept two things. This is really good and it's great ownership is doing this. There's a potential that there's going to be some very unpleasant decisions that the team is going to have to make in a couple seasons. You know, the one guarantee you have is that Tatum's going to be locked up and he's not going to be moved. I think all of the pieces are potentially on the table to be moved to keep this thing afloat and to keep them as a contender. There will be people that you really like that are going to have to go at some point, but it's a problem for another day. But it's a problem for another day and this is all you can ask out of ownership, I think, mike yeah.
Speaker 1:So thanks so much for just breaking that down a little bit. My initial reaction to it was obviously I like it because I think with Holiday, the way the salaries are structured in the NBA and salary cap and all the rules are, the Celtics didn't have many options there. If he was going to opt out in his free agency, he was going to leave and that meant for the Celtics that there was nothing in return, where your only option was to keep him. So maybe there would have been some sort of a sign-in trade where you got a draft pick back. I guess that could have been possible, but that's if Holiday is willing to play ball and even do that right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he wants to be here.
Speaker 1:Well, that's clear too, right? So I think the Celtics didn't have a lot of options as far as we don't want to win this year In just this year't want to win this year in just this year. We want to win next year too, to bring back this start in five. This gives us a chance to uh which would be like best case scenario, obviously to be back-to-back nba champions. I think is what they're looking at. Um, something that I wanted to bring up is uh, as far as the derrick white stuff goes, you had mentioned like the celtics are going to have to make hard decisions down the road. What I will say is, if they're winning championships, maybe they won't have to, maybe they'll be willing to continue to spend until the well dries up, and then it's pretty obvious that they're not going to win a championship with this roster. So I guess we really don't know.
Speaker 2:And the other layer to this, I think is Can I just make a comment on that point and then you can go on your next? I agree to an extent. I don't think you're going to be able to keep five guys you're starting five all making over 35. I just I don't know how that's going to work in terms of what they're going to have to pay out and what that means for the rest of your roster. So I think they will do this for the next two seasons. Beyond that, I think we have to be prepared that there will be unpleasant roster moves.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you say that too. And the other part of it is I think it's harder to trade these contracts now too, since the new CBA. You know, trading a Jalen Brown will be really difficult, even though teams will want him.
Speaker 2:They will want him yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, trading a Christoph Borzingas, which I think if he continues to play the way he's playing, he'll be wanted. So they certainly can move guys off the roster. You don't know what's going to happen with Al Horford If he wins a championship. Does he even want to play anymore? So you don't know right.
Speaker 2:It's a great point because it becomes a dollar-for-dollar trade. It can't be under the old CBA where you were within like 85% of whatever it was of the salary. It's now a dollar for dollar, so it does get more difficult. But when the player is that good and he's out there, someone's going to find a way to make it work.
Speaker 1:And my last point is the extension of Peyton Pritchard by Stevens this offseason. Yeah, great, I mean, what an an important, tremendous move. Because even in my mind, before this extension happened, I was resigned to the fact that if Holiday walks, I was ready to give Pritchard a chance next year to see if he starts, if he plays next to Derek White and that's his starting lineup. I was kind of thinking this guy is showing us something. It's hard for him to show us something in the fourth quarter when he's out there with nobodies, but when he's playing with the guys, jim, he's up in defenders, he's a great shooter, he's the quickest guy on the floor with the ball, he's their best ball handler. So just kudos to brad on that. Um, and then the rest of the construction of the roster will be interesting, always going forward, because a guy like sam hauser, he's gonna get paid, he's not gonna be here a guy like luke cornett.
Speaker 1:As much as I love him, he may not be here because he might. Someone might give him seven or eight million dollars. So I mean these guys have really played well this year and earned a lot. Um, so the pressure is on as a fan like I really hope they win it because if they don't we're gonna see some of these guys leave and, like, this is the window right now yeah, so again, the housing decision's not till 25 26.
Speaker 2:So the celtics have a two million million option on him for next year. That is definitely going to be picked up.
Speaker 1:And they have an option on Cornette too, don't they?
Speaker 2:I don't know. I'll look, but you're right, when Hauser hits free agency, he's signing for somewhere between. People are going to be like what? It's going to be between $15 to $25 million a year, yeah he'll get the Duncan Robinson contract.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he will, and he's a better defender than Duncan Robinson, so he will get that. Maybe it's on the lower end but he's going to get that. Luke Connett, I mean, I think he's going to be a minimum player, maybe a little bit above, even out in free agency. There's just not an appetite to sign guys like him anymore, fair or unfair. But if someone does, what the Celtics have done is, you know, they have now Nimas Keita, who they just signed to a full roster deal and they have him as options for the next few seasons.
Speaker 2:That's a guy that I'm sure they're going to try to develop much in the same way as Cornette a little bit better athlete, I don't think as good a basketball player, but you know, over time he probably could become that and you know that's why the Celtics, you know, roll the dice with a Steve Matuak in this past offseason. You know, minimum veteran shooter. Maybe you know they cough lightning in a bottle and he becomes a replacement for Hauser. I don't think that's the case, but they'll try to do the same thing again this offseason find a guy like that, whether it's in Europe or otherwise or in college, that they can develop and you know that becomes their Hauser replacement and it's not always going to work um, and it gets back to the point that there will be unpleasant roster decisions. But you're right where they have the, where they deserve credit and this goes back to ange, and brett stevens has continued that is, getting these guys to sign extensions before the deals are up. You know, holiday pritchard this season.
Speaker 2:I think pritchard you look at it's well below market value now, based off of how he's played this year oh god yeah, and they have them under team control, and the roster flexibility that they will have starting next season that they really didn't have at all this year and they didn't need it and maybe they don't need it next season either is they have some tradable contracts and you know, if you have to move guys out or you have, you think you're missing a piece, there will be the ability to do that a bit more next season than than you have this season.
Speaker 1:So and one last thing, uh, one last thing, jim, I just wanted to say is you know, one thing we, we used to be worried about with the celtics is their ability to develop players, and yeah, I think that whoever the development guys are, they're doing a good job down the g league, whatever I mean. Lou cornet came here as a three-point shooter. Whoever the development guys are, they're doing a good job Down the G League. Whatever I mean. Luke Cornett came here as a three-point shooter.
Speaker 2:He's not anymore. He did hit one against the Bucs, but yeah, no, he's not.
Speaker 1:You look at Peyton Pritchard, you look at Sam Hauser, I look at Cantor Cueta whatever his last name is oh my God, cueta. And then even the way JD Davidson is playing down the G League this year. He looks like a guy who could be competing for a roster spot next year, leading the G League team into the championship. You see Jordan Walsh playing well down there. These are the second round draft picks that might become NBA players. Celtics are doing a good job and I'm starting to believe that they can develop these guys as they come in.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's one thing that they didn't do during that KG run is they really missed on all their young players and they had to really chase some free agency with the Jermaine, o'neills and the Shacks and folks like that and they became very, very thin and depended so much on their older players that it cost them, I thought, towards the end. So they're trying to get that right here and it's a hard thing to get right because you're drafting at the back of the draft or you're signing undrafted free agents or you're bringing in veterans that are looking for one last shot at a title and that usually doesn't work all that well. But you bring up good points. What has JD Davidson become to the future of this roster build and the trades they made, this trade deadline? I think they were not for this season, they were a look to the future. Jordan Springer has a player option. He's definitely a player. He's a great defender already, a great finisher around the rim. Can they develop him at all as an offensive player? He has an option that I'm sure they're going to pick up and I think it's around $3-4 million.
Speaker 2:Another tradable contract Xavier Tillman. They have bird rights for. My guess is he's not going to be offered a shit ton in the open market opportunity to bring him back at a low number. That's a good, tradable contract and, you know potential Horford replacement down the line. You know, maybe it won't work out, but I'm sure that's what they're looking at. And I know you said you don't want to see him shoot any more corner threes. I think when they're telling him to do this all the time, isn't that a look towards this season? I think it's a look towards the future, and so I think it's key that he keeps shooting those. You know whether that hurts him On the playoffs yeah, maybe not in the playoffs, and I don't think he's going to get much run in the playoffs anyways.
Speaker 2:So those are the things they're going to have to do. But for this rest of the season in the playoffs you're going to have this roster intact, and I think you know Brad always gives us surprises in the offseason. But I think you're going to have this roster pretty much intact for the run next offseason too, unless, you know, things go brutally bad in this playoffs, then I think you will probably see a subtraction to shake things up, but I think that's where it is right now, despite the fact that there's eventually going to become. Some come to a point where decisions are going to have to be made that are going to be unpleasant and uncomfortable, and you know you could look at that and be the dread person, but I think you have to more look at this as a positive, that ownership is in this thing and to the point where they can't or this thing just goes to shit and that's that's all you can ask for.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean you look at the other bosses.
Speaker 2:That's all you can ask for out of ownership right now, and we were critical of them, wondering if they would do this in previous years. So kudos to them. We have a great ownership group here, mike.
Speaker 1:It's nice to have somebody that'll spend. I'll say that.
Speaker 2:It's nice to have somebody that'll spend.
Speaker 2:I'll say that it's nice to have somebody who's interested in winning, because I don't know if the other teams that I care about in town are yeah, and I was really, I was questioning it, I was very critical and I was not sure on this ownership group if they had the pockets, the ability. So I thought the intent was always there with them. I really wasn't sure if they had the pockets to do this. Yeah, because if you know, they aren't as well off, I mean they're billionaires. So, like, let's not get this twisted, but this isn't, you know what's his name, with the Clippers or Cuban or other folks that I just have bottomless kind of pockets. So this, this is this bottomless kind of pockets.
Speaker 1:So this is pretty good. Well folks, I would assume ticket prices are going to go way up.
Speaker 2:Concession stand prices are going to go up even more. I was looking at playoff tickets. Oh boy, are they expensive.
Speaker 1:Yeah, good luck with that, Jim. You have to make. At least one person in the household makes $500,000 a year to afford the Celtics.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I know right. So I don't know. I'm not into grading moves, but I think this is you know as far as, yeah, not completely unexpected, I don't think. I think you know I'm not shocked by this, but a good move, good move, all right.
Speaker 1:Now let's get to the current world of the NBA. Let's do it. Before this future roster talk, big game coming up between Philadelphia and Orlando.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:That's one game that sticks out to me, obviously.
Speaker 2:It impacts on the Celtics too, you know, in terms of who they're going to play.
Speaker 1:Indiana's got a pretty easy schedule down the stretch, but I'll be paying attention to their last two games. Miami plays two against Toronto, so I'm pretty much assuming they'll win out. So that's going to be an interesting. Those are four teams kind of bidding right now, and credit to Milwaukee. Two games in a row held teams under 100 points and I think they've solidified that too. Two seed, jim. I don't know about you. I, I think they're gonna. I, I have a feeling they're gonna. You know, keep that. Two seed. Uh, so the east is starting to shape up here and I really still hope we don't play philadelphia. That's at this point.
Speaker 2:I can't ask for the world, so I'm just not asking for philadelphia from boston yeah, I think miami's pretty much locked into that play-in now, unless there's some weird four-way that gets them out, a four-way tie or something, but I think that's kind of unlikely. I think they played their way out of this last night with a really uninspired effort against, you know, and I know Luker and Kyrie kind of went off against the mavericks. I just you expected more. Jimmy butler didn't even talk to the media afterwards.
Speaker 2:Um, obviously, we've seen this from the heat before and they've come back and played well, but I think they're, they're in the play well, yeah, and they're, yeah, they and they're gonna be well, they're gonna be on the road, regardless of who they play in that play-in. Um, yeah, the you know, week ago we didn't see the magic as a potential play-in team. I also, I guess, didn't look at their schedule, which was they had to win that houston game the other night. That was a must win for them and they got crushed. They got crushed and um, they got milwaukee again after yeah so.
Speaker 2:But here's the situation for them they lose to Philly and Philly wins out. That Milwaukee game doesn't really matter anymore, because Philly has a tiebreaker over them and the records would be matched up. So it's do or die in this Philly game for them, or they will be in the play-in. And I got to tell you with the way.
Speaker 1:What if they have the same record, or better than Indiana, though?
Speaker 2:If it's a three-way scenario, I don't know. I am going to say that I don't know. I don't know. You know, yeah, so I don't know that situation, so I'd have to look at that. That's a great point.
Speaker 1:I would be concerned if I was an Orlando fan if they end up in the plan. Because I would be concerned if I was an Orlando fan if they end up in the play-in, because I would be hugely disappointed with this young team and what their mindset might be that they could like lose two games in a row. I think it's a big deal for Orlando to not be in the play-in if you're an Orlando fan.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'd be nervous right now. I think it's a great point, especially how they've reacted this week in these games, in these moments.
Speaker 1:Because Atlanta can come up and bite you in the ass. They can. We've seen it. They took the Celtics to six games last year with that shit roster.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they can, and Trae Young's back, but I don't know if that's a good thing for Atlanta.
Speaker 1:Honestly, I think they were playing pretty well, it's a good thing in the playoffs to have Trae Young.
Speaker 2:Maybe, maybe it's a different year. I wonder how they feel about him as a team coming back. But you know, regardless, I think, in terms of the Orlando situation, it's almost a team I want to see the Celtics have right now. Yeah, I just don't think they're ready for the moment. I think they're full of talent Don't get me wrong and I think they're a team on the rise, but they lack a shoot outside shooting by their guards.
Speaker 1:I think it makes it easier to defend them in the playoffs. I think the Orlando wants it to be a rock fight and I love the way they play, but they really do lack that guard. I mean, their guards are good, tough players that are going to get up and defend you and that makes them intriguing. But I just think that the fact that their guards aren't consistent from three is going to be their kryptonite.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and just the inexperience too. I think it's really right at its ugly head in these last couple games. I mean, you lose to Houston, which they're essentially playing for nothing.
Speaker 1:They have played for nothing.
Speaker 2:You have everything on the line. You could have been the two-seed still. And then you go and you play Milwaukee coming off that terrible loss to Houston. I know it's a back-to-back to Milwaukee too, and the Astartes went deep into that game against the Celtics, even though they won by a decent amount. They went deep into that game.
Speaker 1:And no, giannis Bobby Portis killed them last night.
Speaker 2:No, giannis, you couldn't overcome that. But it doesn't. I mean, this is this Philly game is going to test their mettle on who they are and I think if you see them lose and lose big to Philly, I think it's you know they're going to be lucky to get through the play-in. I think you're right.
Speaker 1:I mean, I'd be. I'm not a betting man, as you know, but I'd be stunned if Philly doesn't win that game. Maxie's coming off a 50-point game, isn't he? No, not against Detroit.
Speaker 2:Prior to that, I think it was an overtime game. Yeah, no, I would say Philly's got to win too. The issue with them is you just don't know how much of a time bomb that knee is for Embiid and hopefully for their case it's not you know, and they get out. If Philly gets out of that play-in, you can rest and beat it. It's huge for them, obviously, because of the rest right, obviously they don't play Milwaukee, they get frigging Cleveland.
Speaker 1:If Philly wins that series, they're going to the second round.
Speaker 2:Well, it's even bigger than that. I feel it's two. You have two extra games potentially for beating the Shorts shorts period and then going into the first round. That too, yeah, it's like you wonder how he can react. Will he have to miss games because of that? Otherwise, now you've got a week off and you know potentially Cleveland or the Knicks or whoever's going to wind up there. I mean, it could be the paces at this point. We just don't know.
Speaker 2:You know, I think Milwaukee has wrapped up that too with these last two wins. I think it's very interesting. I think the one thing we know for sure is that it's probably Miami in the play. The rest of it is still up in the air on how these guys are going to wind up and who the Celtics are going to end up playing. You know it's going to be either Chicago, atlanta, miami or, you know, a combination of Philly, orlando, maybe Indiana yeah, I don't think so, but maybe Indiana. So you know of that group, maybe Orlando is probably the best matchup. Yeah, I would think so or Chicago. You know, I don't. Chicago doesn't. That's a four-game series, if they ever have to play the Bulls.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't think the Bulls are getting out of the play at home.
Speaker 2:Neither do I.
Speaker 1:I don't think they're going to win at home against Atlanta. I just have no faith in the Bulls. But who knows? You never know.
Speaker 2:I didn't have faith in the Bulls last year and they were winning with two minutes to go against Miami in that final playing game.
Speaker 1:They were, they blew it, they blew it. Celtics were the main of the NBA Finals. Well, giannis was hurt, so yeah, celtics were the main for the. Nba finals fuck you, chicago.
Speaker 2:So I have a question, go ahead. My question for you is out of the east, who do you fear the most? What's the biggest impediment for the Celtics getting to the finals? Out of the East, who do you fear the most? What's the biggest impediment for the Celtics getting to the finals Team otherwise?
Speaker 1:uh, their coach. I still don't know if I trust him. Uh, no, I I did watch that first quarter. I went back and watched it after missing it against walkie. And you're right, jim, he waited a long time to call time out once again. Uh, and I think we've seen this from him in the playoffs, so that makes me nervous. Uh, him in big spots. Uh him at the end of the games not calling obvious timeouts, like in in atlanta this season, for example. Um, so end of the game and execution and the coach really makes me nervous.
Speaker 1:The celtics mindset at the end of the games and then fourth quarters and how they play, uh, as far as the team goes, uh, there's really two teams. There's the Miami Heat factor. I have no idea what they're going to look like in a playoff series. My expectation is that they're going to play really well and whoever they play in that first round, they're going to give them a fight and it's going to be. It's going to be dirty, as like not dirty players, but very physical, with a lot of fouls not called, because I think the refs fall into that with Miami too, and so you know Celtics, miami in that first round.
Speaker 1:I think game one is really important. I do. I think if they play Miami in the first round, they better win game one to set the tone where they didn't last year. And then the other team that's starting to make me a little nervous is Milwaukee size against Boston. I think we have a huge advantage against their wings, but it seems like Tatum and Brown struggle a little bit against that size in the paint with Brooke Lopez, giannis and Bobby Portis.
Speaker 1:So, whether they're afraid to go to the paint. Obviously having Al and KP makes a big difference, but I do think Milwaukee's size and experience of winning this thing before this is something I'm a little nervous about as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I know the size definitely impacted them in that first quarter. I didn't think the Sox came ready to play and not having Porzingis to seek out matchups and get Milwaukee out of what they want to do with just hanging either Brooke Lopez or Giannis in the pay. I mean they didn't even cover Tillman out on the three-point line and Brooke just stayed by the basket essentially, so the Celtics were playing almost five against four. My biggest fear is it's a lot along the same lines as yours. It's just that it's the Celtics, it's, you know, it's not just Missoula, it's how Tatum and Brown are going to play in the fourth quarter with a lead or how they're going to react late and close. Are they finally going to trust in their system in the fourth quarter and continue to play like they did early in the game and being willing to lose at your best? If you believe your best is being a team that moves the ball and finds the open shot, even if it's a three? There has not been a willingness to lose at their best. I feel like in past playoffs you can't be afraid to lose at your best and I'd like to see that finally kind of ingrained in them. I'm not going to feel confident that they can be super confident that they can be a championship team. Until you see that the Missoula is also his. I think there's a lot of good qualities he brings as a coach, but what's maybe most important for a championship team is game management and there's been real holes there and you wanted to see things during this regular season that you made you feel more confident and unfortunately, I feel like the pattern continued of him not utilizing timeouts in key situations or him not recognizing that his team wasn't moving quick enough towards the end of games when they had a chance to maybe get two shots at tying or winning a game, instead just limiting themselves to one. Um, so that stuff, that's my biggest fear as teams. It's probably, it's two. Yeah, it's either. So I know you said I, I, I think that he could be a challenge, but they're not a team. That scares me. The two that um, I think would have the big best shot to knocking the Celtics off. Uh, it's, it's, it's the box Number one. Because he honest, but more because of Dame. Because of Dame I know you talked about the height and how that could give Tatum and Brown some issues. I think the Celtics figure that out. If they're healthy.
Speaker 2:Dame is a player that even through your best efforts, even with your best defender really doing a good job, can make you regret playing that, because there are times that there are no types of defense that can stop him, and we've seen it with him in the playoffs before. We haven't seen him on a level of a team that has a shot before, and that scares me. That scares me going to a game six or game seven must win with him on the other side and a chance to win it down the stretch. He's the type of guy you're almost at the mercy of his will in those situations. I know we like to look at a regular season as a whole and then decide how a team's going to be. I think we can't forget who he is based beyond this season, so that that that scares me in the playoffs.
Speaker 2:And then the other team. I don't think they get past the second round again. I think a lot of that has to do with what's going on with, indeed, but if they could ever figure it out, the roster construction of philadelphia has been better than it has been in years and I I think they're well coached, even though I can't stand watching him during this. God what I hate to see philadelphia, because I hate the 76s. I can't stand nick nurse kyle lowry. I want to put on a spacecraft and just ship them out to the moon.
Speaker 1:But I think the spacecraft wouldn't make it off the ground.
Speaker 2:No, I know, with this flat ass, I think this would be. Yeah, I know, god, I can't stand, but I think that they would Right. If Embiid is right, they're a team that they can beat you. You should win against them, but they can beat you, and when you have an MVP caliber player, that I mean that's the thing. So we talked about Dane. Embiid can score 60 in a game against great defense, you know, going to that mid-range and there'll be nothing you can do when he's on like that. Those are the teams that should scare you with that.
Speaker 1:No, you can't. You just hit him in the knee, give him a couple hits. Yeah, you're right, jim, and the way maxi plays, with him being on the floor is night and day. Uh, so I I forgot to mention philly because they're so low in the standings, but their team, if they play milwaukee in the first round, I wouldn't be surprised if they knock off milwaukee. That would surprise me one bit. Um, and then it wouldn't. You know, I don't think it would surprise a lot of people especially with the honest's health.
Speaker 2:Right now no one knows what that is right.
Speaker 1:So yeah, and and then two other things Out West I just wanted to bring up. Did you see that Utah is on this extreme losing streak? No, I haven't noticed that. Yeah. So I just to all those people who are like, oh, they need to hire Will Hardy and we all, calmed it down, because two years in a row that team is just like falling apart down the stretch.
Speaker 2:They have a roster built to lose too. I mean, at the same time, do you trade for John Collins when you already have six power forwards?
Speaker 1:I don't know what that was about, but I'm just saying I'm like a lot of my friends are like, oh, will Hardy, celtics right now. Will Hardy, I'm like, do you even really know anything about him? Because I don't see anything special going on there. And then the other thing was the people who were always like Devin Booker over at Chase and Tate. I'm like he's so much tougher and so much better if you're paying attention at all. The other night they played the Clippers and Russell Westbrook's out there getting a triple-double. Devin Booker, probably in the biggest game of the season for Phoenix, scored 12 points. He dropped 37 last night but the Clippers played nobody. I just paid him such a better player and I'm so sick of the comparison.
Speaker 2:I thought, Wes, you were going to bring up the Mavericks.
Speaker 1:Well, the way they're playing is like holy smokes.
Speaker 2:Is.
Speaker 1:Derek Lively, even healthy. Yet Is he even playing?
Speaker 2:I don't think much. I don't know if he's healthy or not. I know Gafford has been unbelievable for them.
Speaker 1:He's been good offensively but defensively, if they get Lively back, that's a big upgrade you know Luker is.
Speaker 2:I think it's a coin flip between him and Jokic right now as MVP. I said you know a few weeks ago the Mavericks would have to play this way for him to be an MVP candidate and they have, and he deserves. This might be his year to get it honestly, and he deserves. This might be his year to get it honestly.
Speaker 1:Um, and he deserves and they're a tough, they're a tough playoff out, because that iso game translates to the playoffs yeah, and the look another guy I've.
Speaker 2:We both collectively have shit on kairi. He's been outstanding, like he's. It's been fun. He's playing fun basketball right now he had a left-handed.
Speaker 1:He had a left-handed running buzzer beater from the first line and he's saying all the right things like.
Speaker 2:I still believe that with him it's always going to end badly.
Speaker 2:But I am kind of hopeful for him that it doesn't. You know, redemption stories are good and if he really can turn a page and be a better teammate. You know I'm never going to rate these guys as people because I don't know them and that's not a fair thing to do. But I can tell you that he's been a lousy teammate throughout his career. So if he's matured then you know there's nothing. The best American stories are always redemption stories. So if he can figure that out, then good for him. You know that's kind of Is there a more?
Speaker 1:you know just basketball wise. Is there a more skilled player in the league than Kyrie? Just pure Jokic, jokic, yeah, okay, yeah, yeah, jokic.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay, yeah.
Speaker 1:Jokic, probably definitely. Yeah, I think Kyrie's up there, though, just with the ball handling and the passing and the crazy maneuvering he does on layups. Really don't see from other players the different type of jump shots he can hit with his body. I don't think we've actually seen, because Kyrie hasn't played that much. I don't think we saw that the last couple of years. No, and he was a sulky baby.
Speaker 2:He was a sulky baby. Your politics are your politics, that's fine. I have no problem with him taking a stance on whether it was during the virus or whatever, but he chose to sit out games and then when that ban was finally lifted, he acted like a sulky baby and you heard him saying things in the background and he would play sometimes and not play other times. And obviously the shit with the celtics and you heard about it in cleveland before that, and so I part of the reason he wasn't always there was was a conscious choice. It wasn't just health, it was a conscious choice and I there seems to be some acceptance of that. I don't think kairi will ever take full acceptance of that. He doesn't have to, becauserie will ever take full acceptance of that. He doesn't have to, because the past doesn't matter, it's what he does now and to the future and he deserves credit for that, for what he's doing right now, and he seems like he's being a good teammate and all that stuff, and you know.
Speaker 1:Who would they play right now? Who would they play If?
Speaker 2:the playoffs started today. I'd have to look at the standings. I think it's the Clippers right and then that'd be the 4-5 match. Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:I give them a real shot in that series.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I do. Yeah, I think that would make sense. Hey, mike, I got to wrap, but I think this was a good part and we'll try to talk, obviously, when the season ends, and look at the Celtics' matchup in the playoffs. All right, all right, take care everyone.