Why do the Boston Celtics seem unbeatable at home but struggle on the road? We tackle this conundrum head-on, bringing you a comprehensive analysis of their home/road splits. We look back on last night's loss to Golden State and look forward to the final 3 games of the West Coast swing.
We also shine a light on the broader issues plaguing the NBA, from officiating inconsistencies to player conduct. Reflecting on recent ejections and on-court behavior, we probe into how the league manages these challenges. As we gear up for a break over the holidays, we leave you with thoughts on the delicate balance of talent, risk, and the measures professional sports teams might take to ensure the integrity of the game.
Why do the Boston Celtics seem unbeatable at home but struggle on the road? We tackle this conundrum head-on, bringing you a comprehensive analysis of their home/road splits. We look back on last night's loss to Golden State and look forward to the final 3 games of the West Coast swing.
We also shine a light on the broader issues plaguing the NBA, from officiating inconsistencies to player conduct. Reflecting on recent ejections and on-court behavior, we probe into how the league manages these challenges. As we gear up for a break over the holidays, we leave you with thoughts on the delicate balance of talent, risk, and the measures professional sports teams might take to ensure the integrity of the game.
You're listening to offering in-depth analysis on all things Boston Celtics with your hosts, jim and Mike Quigley. Hello hard follow listeners. Welcome to the next episode of Tommy Hinesen's Hard Follow with your host, jim Quigley, and his helper here, mike Quigley. We're excited to dive into the Boston Celtics. As always, it's been a fun season.
Mike Quigley:Celtics had an incredible home stand Really impressive when you take a deep look into it Two home and home victories where they dominated two teams that they sucked against last year. They really had a hard time beating them last year and also beating the Knicks for the third time this season, another team last year that the Celtics really struggled against. And then there was last night where we all felt really good in the third quarter, especially, like I want to say, with probably two and a half minutes left in the third quarter. We felt really good about how they were playing against the team and the place that since the NBA finals, the Celtics struggled against. And we saw a little bit of repeat history to last year when they went into Golden State failing good at 21 and five, this year at 25 and starting a very difficult road trip with a very unfortunate and, quite honestly, common road loss that we've seen from the Celtics this season and a trend on the road that isn't great.
Mike Quigley:So they will be tested this next week and into Christmas on how they're going to adjust with their road woes of blowing leaves and ultimately not being able to finish in the end. So a lot of things to be happy about in the short term and overall this season. But I don't want to just keep it all rosy because the road woes are real and maybe we'll be also looking as Jimmy's going to talk about seeing Tatum take a game off or two here, because he certainly didn't look like himself driving to the basket Kind of avoiding driving to the basket really in this last game after his unfortunate ankle injury that he talked about after the game. So, jamal, that's a shit ton of stuff. I can throw the table, but I'll kind of hand that over to you.
Jim quigley:Yeah, I didn't hear his comments. What did he say?
Mike Quigley:He basically said when you sprain your ankle, it's hard to play basketball. That's what happened to me.
Jim quigley:Yeah, he didn't look right and I guess there's a lot to dig into. Certainly the dichotomy between the home and road splits and the dominance that we've seen at home and the impressive homestand that you mentioned with Winsover, cleveland and Orlando and really a dominance against the top East teams. I think the 12 and three out of the 15 games they played against the top eight seeds in the East. Really a top heavy schedule to stop the season and now these challenges on the road. But you could see it with Tatum, I thought last night after he rolled his ankle and he came back in the game, there really was an explosiveness. I think Golden State sensed it because if you saw they were more than willing to have Chris Paul cover him on the perimeter at Times Curry, they would send help and Tatum made a good job of reading the help and finding the open man. But there wasn't that explosion that you would see of him attacking the basket and then he struggled finishing and I think that had a lot to do with his ability to get off the floor.
Jim quigley:I would be really surprised and I know he's a tough guy, he does not like to miss basketball games, but I'd be really surprised if he suits up tonight against Sacramento. To me he just did not look right. I don't want to say he hurt his offense, because I thought he did a really good job facilitating and I thought he could do a lot of help, but he was certainly not the same guy that we're used to seeing and I don't think that's the reason why they lost. I think there were other contributed factors. I think there's some trends, especially with 3-point shooting and your own 3-point shooting on the road, which is a bit troublesome, and some of their lapses on defense, particularly with their screen and roll coverage on Curry, where they let him get free, get going and feel good and then he was amazing down the stretch of that ball game.
Mike Quigley:Really covering Clay Thompson either and a slight overshoot.
Jim quigley:No, clay had a really good game up until about midway through the fourth quarter. Then I thought he really tied out. I guess he quickly became the Curry show. But they were going under screens at times. They were seeing their coverage mixed up. I even thought at times, when they were running this two-man game between Curry and Thompson, I still would have trapped Curry and just taken my chances with Thompson at that point, because I think Curry was just that dominant and was certainly in a Curry zone. But there were times where and I know he's deep but they just didn't get out onto him, like I said where they kind of going under and they just seemed to make mistakes like they made. You mentioned last year's matchup against Golden State. You go back two years ago to the finals, where they would let him get free and then they gave up second chance opportunities to Golden State and then when they had opportunities they didn't convert.
Mike Quigley:Look it's yeah, they missed a lot of shots.
Jim quigley:They missed a lot of open. I mean Sam Hauser himself went 0-7. They had that one possession where they I think they had four or five looks off offense rebounds and every single one of them was a good look, late in the game or I think the game was tied and over time the first four possessions were, I thought, all good possessions and got good looks and didn't convert them. So even on.
Mike Quigley:Peyton Prichard III. To put him up 18, he stepped on the baseline that was a big shift in the game.
Jim quigley:It was, it was. I think you could look at a lot of different things. A couple of shots go in from out there and you're not going over time, but that's what happens when you give up to another team 40% from three and you shoot under 30% 35 points in the fourth quarter of the game.
Jim quigley:Yeah, and it's been a trend right and it kind of kept Golden State in the game. Early in the game, with Saarich I think, hit a few threes. You know, thompson, moody, kominga, they all contributed from out there and outside of Derek White. You in a little bit of Peyton Prichard, you weren't really getting much contributions from beyond the arc at all and you missed a lot of bunnies. I mean I wanted to all have three or four putbacks. So now it's brushing its putbacks.
Mike Quigley:It was driving me nuts.
Jim quigley:The offense wasn't the problem. I didn't think. Last night I thought, you know, there were times when you scale brought it up, where they got stagnant. I didn't think it was that often. I think it feels that way because they had misses. I thought they had a lot of good looks. I thought the defense in the defensive rebounding in the fourth quarter, where they just executed poorly, You're like I didn't know how else to put it. It seemed like there's no way. The game plan was to not cover Curry.
Mike Quigley:The other part of it, too, was like they screwed up coverages. They stopped going to Jalen Brown yeah, and they stopped going to him not just as the scorer but as the shot created. For all the people he's that net best, probably the home stand going into this game. He's been the best player all around right, and so he certainly was the best player through three quarters, and I feel like after I hear him in dark white, yeah.
Mike Quigley:Heard him in dark white, yeah, but White was more playing off people. I feel like where Brown was creating for himself and others, and I feel like after he got curry into that fifth foul situation, they just stopped going to Brown and letting him drive to the hoop Because Golden State really didn't have a lot of resistance. No, they didn't.
Jim quigley:They didn't.
Mike Quigley:I thought that that hurt the Celtics and the stuff you're bringing up about, the missed shots and like the offense is not like they look good, they're just not executing. What's alarming to me is that it often is the story this year on the road oh, we're just missing wide open shots, again we're just missing wide open shots. And now you know we let the other team back in, but we ran good offense.
Jim quigley:They got to figure this out, because six and six on the road for this team, that's unacceptable and four on a road too, that they've lost and it's been a while since they've got one and the offense always hasn't been good on the road. I didn't think it was bad in this game but it hasn't always been good and in fact they've been held pretty low numbers, a lot of these losses. Even in their last win against Memphis I think they scored 104 points. They've gone over time a couple of times and they've lost, but the one thing that's really been consistent is the other team's three point shooting on the road. It's been well north of 40% or half 40% and you haven't been close to that and that's usually a recipe for a loss. And there's a certain level of focus at home. That's really impressive that there is.
Jim quigley:I know Joe Missoula said earlier and I don't know why we're playing that well, but Tatum kind of spilled the beans. This seemed to me there was an emphasis on this. It's clearly he said it. We wanted to get back to what we were a couple of years ago when I first got here and we're electric at the garden where we haven't found the past couple of years. I think there was an emphasis on who they were going to be at home, which with great teams. That's usually.
Jim quigley:You look back at the really great South ExTemps. You look at the Warriors teams that never lost at home, the Bulls team. So if you want to be that type of team, that's where you establish yourself. Unfortunately, the splits are too big. They shouldn't be a 500 team. They shouldn't be perfect on the road I don't think anyone's expecting this, but they shouldn't be a 500 team and they've lost to it. It's not like they're losing to great teams here Indiana, charlotte. These aren't great basketball teams. There's a chance that none of them make the playoffs. You need to be better than that. I'll be interested to see how they come out tonight against Sacramento.
Mike Quigley:That'll be tough, Jeff. That's going to be tough. That's going to be a tough game when a team they've historically not just beat, but beat down.
Jim quigley:This has been a good match up for them historically and even without Tatum, with Brazilian back in the lineup, you would say the South ExTemps have more talent, so this is a game they should win. I know it's a back to back, but you just lost. How are you going to come out here tonight? It will be interesting.
Mike Quigley:You know, it's more interesting to meet them. It's not how they come out, it's how they finish for me tonight, because I expect they'll do what they usually do on the road they're going to come out and play well in the first half. Yeah, how are they going to finish this game? I think my concern is probably the same little concern for you is Sacramento can certainly shoot the three ball. They have several guys that can do that.
Mike Quigley:You're a king of the team and they have a good self for them right now, and they have a point guard that is certainly hard to match up against, which is Celtics have struggled against Hallibur and then Kari and others, tyrese, maxey this year, so this could be the recipe for the same old Celtics on the road, but hopefully they'll surprise us and they'll come out and they'll win a road game, because this is a tough road trip. They're going into LA after this game with one seven in a row the Clippers and then they end on Christmas Day after. Well, they have a seven in a row.
Jim quigley:They lost to the next couple of games ago when Brunson had 50.
Mike Quigley:That was against Daly and Clippers.
Jim quigley:Yeah, are you sure?
Mike Quigley:Yes, all right, you're positive OK.
Jim quigley:I quit this big lead. Yeah, Brunson had 50. Either way, they've been playing very well, they've been playing a lot better. They've been playing a lot better. And then Chris Westay is going to have that special element to it. Yeah, no, and look, it's the same old Celtics for this year. Because what's interesting?
Mike Quigley:For this year, yeah.
Jim quigley:They've been about a road team than a home team in a lot of aspects over the last couple of seasons. So they've got to figure it out. And look, I think part of it is last four games. One of those was against the Lando. They haven't had Posingas. He hasn't been part of any of those four road games, so that's a question. It doesn't mean they shouldn't have lost four in a row and they shouldn't have lost last night.
Mike Quigley:Ask a question. Yeah, Knowing where they are right now on the road where they're playing, would you be satisfied with the two and two road trip at this point?
Jim quigley:It depends how it happens. You know it depends how it happens, like if they come out and they win tonight and they split in LA. But the two good games in LA, you know, the two talented teams, I mean the same boat yeah. Yeah, yeah. But if I guess it always depends how it happens, like if they win the next two and then they play an eight on Christmas, you're not going to feel good about a two and two.
Mike Quigley:Yeah, my only defense to that for them. You know I typically don't defend these guys, but I could see Christmas. It's like the last day of the road trip.
Jim quigley:It's too big of a game. Yeah, yeah, it's too big Going against the lake is on Christmas and there's no excuse not to be ready to play. Yeah, yeah. Especially when they have.
Mike Quigley:Detroit after that. So it's like you don't really even have to try against Detroit.
Jim quigley:Yeah, go around the league. There's a lot of interesting stories. Let's hit on the home stuff in that home. Stand quickly, mike. Can I throw one crazy stat at?
Mike Quigley:you before you do that.
Jim quigley:Yeah.
Mike Quigley:Going into the game last night the Celtics were 12 and 0 win. Drew Holiday scored 13 points or more in a game. It was the first game this year they lost when that happened. So for me that's interesting because it means his offense is important to this team for them to win Going forward, because it seems like when he contributes offensively they're a much better team when he does it. I believe they were 6 and 5 at that point.
Jim quigley:So when he hit, those free throws.
Mike Quigley:Last night you got to the 13 point mark. At the end of the game I was like, oh, they're going to win.
Jim quigley:I wonder what the Celtics record is, though, when Tatum scores 15 points or less.
Mike Quigley:I'm sure that was probably only an example of three games. I'm guessing it's over.
Jim quigley:It's not very good. So that might be the bigger factor last night. Yeah, but go back to the homestands. So if we're going to trash them and I think rightfully so for their performance on the road, at home they've been the polar officer, they've been outstanding. I don't even remember them trailing in the fourth quarter at any point in those five games. Maybe they had.
Mike Quigley:I don't think they did.
Jim quigley:I don't remember if they did in our.
Mike Quigley:It always got close, like kind of close in the two home and homes, but then we just would erupted and just kicked their ass. Yeah, yeah.
Jim quigley:That last game, orlando, was a great example. I know you were at the game mic so I really want to hear your perspective, but I think it was a six point game. And then, all of a sudden, brown hits a three, tatum hits a three, brown hits a three, and it happened. It felt like in 45 seconds.
Mike Quigley:Yeah.
Jim quigley:And that was bulging and that was it. And you know, a couple minutes later the bench is declaring and it felt like that was, and how I felt the biggest difference to me between what we saw last night in that home stand. They're bad quarters. So their first quarter versus Cleveland and I thought the first game against Orlando, that first quarter and then it wasn't great.
Jim quigley:The third Maybe it was a third quarter against Orlando. In the game you were at I, it was kind of bad shooting, but the energy was never bad and the attention to Tatum was never bad. The defense was always what you would want it to be. They were fighting for every possession. As Missoula said, they were winning on the margins right and so even like early in the game against both Orlando and Cleveland, in those one game they think it was the first time they played each they were missing long early in the game. It almost felt like they were squeezing the ball to have a little bit. It wasn't like they were missing short, you know which is no.
Mike Quigley:they ended the game. That's not. They would end the game with like 19 threes when they started one for 10.
Jim quigley:Yeah, I know we'd be texting early on and I, frankly, was never concerned about those bad quarters because I'd sit there and watch. But they're giving it. There's an all out effort here, there's an all out attention to detail. From watching on TV, the energy seems incredible and I just that was the most impressive part for five games they were locked in and the energy level was extraordinarily high, from your best players to the last guy that came in, to Lamar Stevens. That would fill in for when you know they were not three bigs, they were down On the second night of the back to back.
Jim quigley:Yeah, so I don't know. You know, I know you watched the first four from your coach, but the last one was Sunday, a matinee game where, historically, the Celtics have sucked at three o'clock stat. What did you see there, live?
Mike Quigley:Well. So I thought the game was one when Missoula adjusted the coverage to Pablo. He put Drew Holiday on him after he got to 27 points in the first half and after that Pablo could not create the space that he typically creates against Holiday and Holiday was up in him. And when he got past that first line of defense of Holiday, the defense was just more prepared to be there where there's more length in the paint to defend him. So I thought that was a terrific adjustment by by Missoula, cause Holiday was great. Just his defense was incredible in that game.
Mike Quigley:So that's the first thing that stood out to me. The other thing that stood out in that game is just how much it, like Hauser, has improved as a player overall. I know he only had four points and he was missing the threes, but his ability to go to the basket and make shots now was something he couldn't do last year and just seeing that live his ball handling, passing and just overall offensive game has really improved. But yeah, it was. It was the. In the end it was the Jail of Brown show, right, jim, on Sunday.
Jim quigley:It was the.
Mike Quigley:Jail of Brown show, and I thought the most impressive one in that road trip, though, was the Friday night game. You had three digs out. You started Stevens at center, the backup center was preset, and you just were tough. You were the tougher team. That's what it was. You were just a tougher team. That night, you know they brought in Mo Wagner to be dirty, and Franz Wagner was playing dirty. They were playing dirty on Friday night. You didn't bitch and scream at the rest, you just kept giving it to them and kind of gave it to them all night. You know like you could tell that Brown was pissed off. You could tell that Brown was taking it personal, that we've had enough of a landing. That's the message I got from those two games. It's like we've had enough of this shit. We're gonna show who daddy is here in Boston. And I had a lot of fun during that road trip. Every night, every game go back to the next game. I thoroughly enjoyed every single one of those games.
Jim quigley:Yeah, and that's the thing, like with Alino, they're a hot playing team that, like you, you take-.
Jim quigley:On the way they play On the way yeah, but Charo is an excellent player, creates his own space. But I think the Celtics realized if we play with that type of effort and energy, our talent is just so superior that you know the cream's gonna rise to the top in a 48 minute game. And I think that's the part that's so frustrating about the performance on the road is your shot's not always gonna travel. You know you're gonna have possessions, like you did and that was a great effort energy possession with a four or five offensive rebounds Against Golden State and getting open looks and you know, just not converting when the game was tied late. But then to lose that energy and attention to detail on the defensive glass and to lose that energy and attention to detail on your coverages with Steph Curry is really that's frustrating as a fan.
Jim quigley:It has to be frustrating to the coach. He gets ready to talk about winning on the margins. That's how you do it. And if this team wins all the margins, they're gonna win the vast majority of the games because the talent is better than everybody else and they're gonna win the extreme vast majority of those games. And that should travel on the road. The attention to detail, your energy, your effort, that's how you can control and I know it's harder. You're getting off the plane, the time travel and all that stuff, but you still can control it, Whereas you shot and sometimes turnovers and things like that not always completely in your control. There's another team out there that can make it difficult, but they should be able to do that and I hope they start to correct it on this road stand. I'm not that confident that they're going to, based on what I saw last night, but they'll get another shot tonight, yeah, I think in the like.
Mike Quigley:looking forward Keita victory tonight, for me is running the two man game and the pick and roll as much as possible with Savonis and Pozingis, whether it's Brown or Tatum or plays or Derek White, I think that's who you're attacking tonight. Offensively and defensively, it's just about being focused and digging in, and that's my concern. Is that that's the end of concern? I think offensively they should get what they can Whether they hit their shots and on on the road, we'll see in the second half. But defensively, are they gonna have that drive and effort and attention to detail is what I'll be looking for.
Jim quigley:Yeah, it could be a good for set Stevens game where both of those guys give you 10 to 15 minutes and you hope it's good energy, good effort and maybe make some kind of effort extra plays that get you going a little bit. Mike, let's go around the league Cause I, I oh and one, yeah, definitely one last thing.
Mike Quigley:Hopefully Hauser can get off the S9. He's he's missed, I think like 15 straight threes, so he's probably yeah, going back to it. So like he went like 0 for seven last night, then over four against Orlando sets 11. And I think he misses last two in the game practice. That's why I think it's like 13.
Jim quigley:You just gotta keep running them out there until it's done.
Mike Quigley:Of course you do. Yeah, you gotta get this guy going.
Jim quigley:Just gotta keep running them out there. So, going around the league we'll kind of make this a lightning round. Let's start with dream on green. Dream on green. Suspended indefinitely for being dream on green doing dream on green dirty things. He has to go to counseling. He says he blacks out. I you know I'm glad the league suspended him indefinitely. I think he's a dirty player Like the. He doesn't even try to hide it, he does it right out of the open. The idea now that he's some sort of a victim of you know anger management issues or whatever I mean, cut it out. I, like Bill Amban was a dirty asshole.
Mike Quigley:You know, but he was, he was. He didn't like say I have mental health.
Jim quigley:Tram on green is the same thing.
Mike Quigley:But there's a big difference between the two. Yeah, like don't land there, wasn't hiding behind, like oh, I got issues.
Jim quigley:You know, we black self. And yet he can go on his podcast right after the game and explain to you in detail why things happen. Like it's all bullshit and yeah, he's gonna come back and so be fine for a month, and then he's gonna do something again, because that's who he is, and he's gonna take a cheap shot, probably in a European player, because that's what he seems to like to do, and it's, it's coming, buddy, he's. I go back even the NBA finals, like when, in that free throw, when he went out to take him shoulder, that you know.
Jim quigley:I don't know if you remember that he put his arm, it was. It was intent to hurt, it was intent to injure. It was not about a good ball play and he wasn't blacking out. No, that was calculated.
Mike Quigley:It was a calcine black and out when he was kicking Steven Adams in the nuts.
Jim quigley:No games in a row ran up to Go beer and choked him from behind like he's not working out. Do like this is. This is kind of who he is. You know, I guess embrace it. I don't know, I don't give land bear any credit for embracing it. I thought he was a dirty player who could have got people hurt. But you know, it kind of is what it is.
Mike Quigley:That's my two cents on my two cents on it, like how long exactly since he suspended? For he should be suspended for at least as long as John Marin. My opinion yeah, this guy is out of control and and the leaves. Lucky that somebody hasn't tried to beat the shit out of them. We don't have another palace on my hands like that. The guys out of control. Jim, like he tries to hurt people he really hasn't hurt somebody yet, but but the thing is, when he's like oh, I play a good black out, you don't black out. You're calculated in it because you go after people who you can bully. You don't go after anybody who's gonna fight you back, like, for example, when Marcus Morris, when he was on the clip, is tried to fight you, what you do, you backed out like a bitch because that's somebody you could fight back.
Jim quigley:Yeah, go after Bobby bonus. Go after Bobby bonus, You'll see how yeah that's what I mean.
Mike Quigley:Like he doesn't like pull on Jaylen Brown's pants down like, oh Well, you can. You can bully Jaylen Brown because you're way bigger than you. Kick his ass like it's like Somebody. At some point it's gonna get ugly and the league needs to avoid that from happening. Brown.
Jim quigley:Just right up to him. Right afterwards he did stand up to him.
Mike Quigley:I'm just saying in general, like he doesn't, he's a bully and like it could, it could get bad, like I don't know how you let this guy back like, and if he comes back, like it's like you do one thing you done, like it's done, he's not, he can't, he can't be in the league. Like and talk about a guy who had such a legacy, you know, like what his, his career has looked like if he didn't have this dirty shit, like how he would be remembered compared to like how we're gonna remember to. I Can't stand the guy. I and I. When he first came into the league, I really liked him too.
Jim quigley:I really liked him you know so we're the lightning rounds going a little bit longer than a light round should. So next, yanis, on to the Coupo. You know scores 65. I'm rookie on the pace that scored for the first time and I guess historically you take that ball.
Mike Quigley:That smells like bullshit too. Oh, the whole situation. But if you see him running into the, running down the thing, yeah. How do you not get suspended for?
Jim quigley:that every pay, every buck that went in there should have got suspended.
Mike Quigley:I think what the hell is that about?
Jim quigley:Every buck that went in there, including him, and I felt like it was like a Really bad week for people that have athletes, have built up a lot of good. Will you know, the Sunday before that it was my homes and Andy Reed bitching about losing their minds over a guy being like two feet off. It's somehow that's the officials fault, you know, like the worst.
Mike Quigley:NFL player in the NFL. Yeah, the biggest in the NFL, like you're finding him.
Jim quigley:And then you know, I thought that was just a complete clown show from two guys that, like you, know you highly respect.
Mike Quigley:You appreciate the way they go about their job.
Jim quigley:And then Yanis, the same thing, like he's built up so much good Well around the league and I lost a lot of respect for that, like the way he was like talking down to Halliburton like it was Tyrese's, halliburton's job to get you the basketball. What's the?
Mike Quigley:matter with you. I don't. I don't know what. Maybe Yanis just had a bad moment, because I'm a big Yanis fan, but man, that look bad. That was he looked like a fucking baby.
Jim quigley:And it's probably the biggest shit in the entire league. Like I cannot, I'm so sick of honest.
Mike Quigley:Think about it. Think about like that guy's life, like he just makes a million dollars every year just like sitting there Well, the funniest moment People should I forget who I think it was that came against Indiana like you, honest, got fouled had.
Jim quigley:Oh, I wish they didn't grab him, because I still think it was like this Like oh god, all right, indian, not Indiana, detroit losing. I don't even know how much it was at 24, 25 and no game is close there. They don't even feel like a real NBA team.
Mike Quigley:I'm not fire that coke. Yeah God how do you not find that? Cook that team? I Used to think that team was fun to walk. Yeah, I used to think they played hard and they just weren't very good. I like Kate Covenham, yeah, yeah, and I felt like Similar to how I felt about Orlando, like they were building towards something. I feel like every offseason I'm like, oh, maybe this is the Detroit's gonna be good. They don't even play Jordan 90 which is crazy right.
Jim quigley:Which is crazy, like I don't like what the hell's going on there.
Mike Quigley:And Kate Covingham is not good this year either, but he's coming off an injury, so yeah.
Jim quigley:Why do we just?
Mike Quigley:gotta be fired. If you ask me, I think he needs to lose his job.
Jim quigley:It looks like a team that is just completely lost themselves. It's really. It doesn't even feel like tanking, it feels like, yeah, it's bad, they just can't. There's no way to figure it out. The last thing, mike the officiating, you've seen Nicola Jokic get ejected twice. You saw what happened with Tatum and Brown, you know. I know there's been others around the league, even I, chris Paul, the Chris.
Mike Quigley:Paul, one was, was horrible, I mean.
Jim quigley:I think at the rest of his behavior.
Mike Quigley:Maybe that just was no, the the ref was talking shit to him, yeah, and in Tyson, and then when Chris Paul turned around, he threw him out of the game.
Mike Quigley:Yeah, yeah so like speaking of babies this year there were no bigger babies in the NBA refs and this needs to stop. These Jalen Brown shouldn't have been thrown out of the game. This is crazy. Like I don't understand what's going on with these wraps. Like they're on a power trip. Maybe they do refs, but yeah, that's. It's a bad product because of them, but they don't do a good job half the time like they have. They are throwing guys out of the game and every single time there's a green light special. We have no idea what direction it's gonna go, because, even though it's right in front of our face and we know what's happening, we don't know what the rest.
Jim quigley:No, it's a post. The game you were at right, the game that you were at a veteran crew If you were getting bumped, you weren't gonna come. But it stayed that way through the entire game.
Mike Quigley:It was consistent, yeah, they call it.
Jim quigley:We weren't on the whistle on.
Mike Quigley:Friday night to actually on above.
Jim quigley:It made for really enjoyable product, and I think players were frustrated early on, and then they figured it out hey, this is how they're gonna call it.
Jim quigley:So we just got to keep playing this way and it wasn't. As you see, so happened so often in the NBA, where we're especially with the under officials, where you have it all that way in the first half. In the second half it's like they're overcompensating and you have 50 foul calls and the players have no idea. You know how the game's being officiated at all. I thought both games against Orlando You're right the front and I came to. I Just thought it was very well officiated from the standpoint of this is how we're calling it and it's gonna be consistent. Physicality isn't going to get you a foul. You know whether that's the letter of the law or not. This is how we're gonna move forward and I Think everyone, from the fans to players on the floor, appreciate that. Yeah, I don't. I don't know if it's younger officials that are doing this with the teas I don't know how you'll get is already been thrown out twice this year.
Mike Quigley:That's crazy.
Jim quigley:I'm a MVP, you know guy that people paid money to go see.
Mike Quigley:I thought the brown ejection was just absurd, you know you know how bad the ejections are, that when they ejected you get the away crowd was booing the officials. That's how bad.
Jim quigley:And you're seeing often I notice I think I'm happy with both Tatum and Brown it's the official, don't even necessarily who the player is arguing with. Oh, it's who the official. It's the official coming in. It's like the second or third official that comes in and he's a month and throws them out. I, I think it's. It's certainly a problem for the league. Yeah, I Think they've done some good things. Where plays out a lot to step, that's an automatic technical. If you step towards your official, if you just your added official, it's our American technical. I think that's. Those are all good things. I think that cleans it up. But when these superstars get one, the second one, it better be earned, or else you everyone's looking bad. Yeah, everyone is looking bad.
Mike Quigley:I think the league has to look at that. You know that they have to look at how the officiating is right now and Adam Silver, I think, has to step in and do something about that right away. Last thing about the league gym that I think they have to take a look at. We hinted at this before. Just this Josh giddy situation. You have the guy in Charlotte. They wouldn't even want to play in Toronto because of you know things he, he did. I Think there's just a lot happening the stuff with Ray Mongreen. There has to be some sort of discussion going on with the players. You know something or something about behavior and accountability. Feels like there isn't a lot of accountability in the league right now for people fuck up.
Jim quigley:Yeah, I, it's. The giddy one's particularly tough because you have the girl. In this case, that's refusing.
Mike Quigley:She's not gonna talk, yeah talking.
Jim quigley:So I don't know how you legislate. Set that one. I think the the bridges one was different because there was photographic evidence. There was a victim that was willing to talk. I Thought there was a resolution and quota. Maybe that's still pending, I don't know.
Mike Quigley:Wasn't there a situation with like Josh primo last year too? It's just like seems like a lot. You know that they I don't know what the answer is, I'm just bringing up in general. It's just not a good look for the league that this keeps happening.
Jim quigley:I think major league baseball is a pretty good model of how they've handled particularly violence against women and children.
Mike Quigley:Yeah, so What'd they?
Jim quigley:do Give me a minute. They changed their rules where the suspensions were Longer and the the opportunity to get back into game. I think there were classes and things like that. Um, it all had to do with the Chapman situation, oh yeah, I remember that. Let's see, but I'm not gonna look it up now. But they, they me.
Mike Quigley:I believe it.
Jim quigley:Yeah, model out there. Um, you know some of this is hard though too, because I like the mean me long, lucid situation here in town with the Bruins. You know I was talking. You know the globe had a pretty good article. Another I was talking, I read a global article about If you release him right now, even though you can't really punish him because this thing hasn't been adjudicated If you were to release him as a team, you might be actually putting his wife and kids in more risk Because he's going to be angry and he's going to be looking for someone to blame. So if you can keep him employed and you can have some safety measures in place, working with Different organizations, there might be.
Mike Quigley:Let me make more sense.
Jim quigley:It might when we talk about the safety of the people at home, which really needs to be the priority, not how we feel as a fan or fans or community here. So they're really Difficult situations. I think you know mlb has a good model and we talked about this on the pod before. Maybe you go out and sign a guy, you draft a guy with a background like this and they go out and do something again. Maybe it needs to be a penalty for the team.
Mike Quigley:Yeah, you know, I think that's a good idea.
Jim quigley:You know maybe you got to work that out with the play is in. You know I don't think you do and you know you put some on us, on these owners. Um, told me, told this a little bit. You know, patriots are a great example with Aaron Hernandez, right, there's no great example, or not? They History there. They rolled the dice.
Jim quigley:Okay, so I did maybe you need a penalty for that. You know, and if you are an organization, next year Bridges is going to be a free agent and you, you see the talent and you give them two years, 20 million dollars. Well, if he does this again, maybe you should lose the traffic. You know, this is at least some sort of pain For the organizations that bring them in um first time offenders while they're on the team. But you can't blame the team. There's no way would know. But if there's a history.
Jim quigley:Maybe that's where you're going to bring some hurt, um, because, right now there's no risks outside of you know bad press.
Mike Quigley:Yeah, there really isn't. Really isn't. Well, all right, jim, I feel like this was a good quad. We got three tough games coming up on the road here, so we'll check in, probably after christmas, I'm thinking yeah. Yeah, so everybody, have a uh Merry christmas and a happy new year, and we will connect with you after the lake is game.
Jim quigley:Yep happy onica.
Mike Quigley:Happy onica, Happy everything else right.