What a turn of events it's been! We went from skeptics to believers in the in-season tournament. We'll dissect the challenge of playing sans Kristaps Porzingis and delve into the showdown with Joel Embiid and the Sixers on Friday night.
What a turn of events it's been! We went from skeptics to believers in the in-season tournament. We'll dissect the challenge of playing sans Kristaps Porzingis and delve into the showdown with Joel Embiid and the Sixers on Friday night.
You're listening to offering in-depth analysis on all things Boston Celtics With your hosts Jim and Mike Quigley.
Mike Quigley:Mike, in-season tournament has got me hooked. I have completely done a 180 on my views on this thing. I you know very entertaining basketball last night in the point differential kind of wrinkle Kind of sucked me in I think. And here we are, welcome everyone to HODFOWL, coming off the Celtics blowout win against the Chicago Bills which clinched the birth into the in-season tournament. After you know it looked like they weren't going to be in. After you know a disappointing Monday loss over the weekend to the Atlanta Magic. Mike, how's things going?
Jim Quigley:Well, things are fantastic For the Celtics. It's such an interesting roller coaster of like the last two weeks of so a basketball to see where this team is, where they struggle, where they're improving, and so I mean that's all part of the process of the season, so that's why it's fun. You know, third quarter at the beginning of the season was like really good. I remember there was a Nets game where they came out in that third quarter and just went bananas. Actually there's a couple of games in that stretch. And then they went through this stretch where, like the Orlando game was just a nightmare, Milwaukee, some other games, and then last night you saw like a terrific third quarter. So there's certainly things that the team has to work on that we can talk about. There's things to be excited about, concerned about. And then as far as the N-Series and tournament goes, let's go there, let's stop there Then we'll get into it.
Jim Quigley:Let me start there just by saying that this year I think this is fun.
Mike Quigley:I was out on this. I'll let you go. I was out. I was out. I thought the courts were like really gimmicky, I do like the Celtics uniform. I thought they did a pretty good job at the Bulls uniform last night was great for the city edition in the tournament, but I just yeah. So I thought this was like. I thought this was like European soccer. I just wasn't into it. But you know, I'm in now, I am fully bought in, you know, and it took last night, but go ahead.
Jim Quigley:So I am. I am too. I was a little bit at the beginning and then more and more, and this year was good. I think next year is going to be great when, now that the teams understand it a little bit more. So that was I was listening to Brian Scalabrini on the radio this morning the Orlando Magic had like a 30 point lead in the fourth quarter against the nets for their first game of the plan and they took out all their starters and then the net stood score them 36 to 18 in the fourth quarter and that's the reason they're not going into the next round, despite the fact that they beat like the best team in the NBA yeah, pretty much dominated them, you know and they went for it.
Jim Quigley:Orlando went for it in that Friday game, that matinee game, in that fourth quarter. They were going for it but it was too late. So the crowd in Boston last night, they stayed to the very end of this game because they were keeping track of the points. Missoula was, you know, intentionally following Andre Drummond up 30 and initially I was angry, but then I saw his little discussion with Billy Donovan and even Billy Donovan like took his head at mid court, like yeah, you're trying to get into the next round. You're keeping points right now. You saw like pressure on Sam Houser and Luke Cornette and Peyton Pritchard in the last two minutes of that game to increase the lead because those guys have $500,000 on the line and the assistant coaches were super into the game last night because they have $500,000 on the line and I just I love it In this game in Indiana. Think about it once. Last time that team in that city had a meaningful playoff game, that place is going to be nuts.
Jim Quigley:Yeah that crowd's going to be so into it and I expect I expect a high scoring game and I expect Tyler Hurt Hellebert in the show up. Miles Turner is going to show up. Like it's going to be a really good game Monday night.
Mike Quigley:Yeah, I still don't have faith in Miles Turner, but I know where you're going with that. They're a good basketball.
Mike Quigley:Oh, he scored 50 against the Celtics last year. They're a good. Yeah, he had that one time. They also used to cover him with Peyton Pritchard. For a reason. They they're a really good offensive team.
Mike Quigley:But before I even get to Indiana, like I don't think I would have been into this I really don't if the Celtics had beat Orlando and they were three and oh and they're going into this hapless Chicago game. I just I would have. I think that they lost and they had a reach, a certain point differential made last night interesting. It made it interesting and that I really started thinking about it afterwards. You know Indiana, you're right, that's going to be fun. But what will be really fun is if they play in Milwaukee a Thursday night from now, you know, a week, from Thursday, down in Vegas and you know adding more edge to that rivalry and what that Eastern Conference final potential matchup could look like. You know it will be matched up against the Patriots and the Stalers, so it'll be interesting to see how, like the ratings between the two, you know games kind of line up, I think you know then you potentially see a Lakers Celtics finals. Maybe you could, you could see, and then they play a week later, on Christmas. That will just add more juice to that and you look at the level of teams that are in it Because, let's be honest, you and I will still watch if Indiana and the Knicks advance and it's like Sacramento advancing out west, but at the same time it's just not that interesting overall, I think, to the average fan if that happens, and rightfully so.
Mike Quigley:But you have some Maki teams right now that can potentially continue to go on playing Vegas and I just think it becomes a little bit more fun. I think you're right with the added incentive of 500 grand for all players and coaches. It's going to give you a stop, a reason to play for their teammates and build that camaraderie even more. It's going to give an edge and I do think it will be a playoff intensity. We're starting in India and I think the crowd will certainly be in it, but definitely in Vegas, especially if you see these Maki matchups and it will spur more of a rivalry. It might spur some bad blood, which isn't the worst thing in the world too. When you're playing for something, more of an edge comes out. If you get some bad blood between Milwaukee and Boston. I think that's good, I think that's good for the game. I think it's good for the league If you get some bad blood between Phoenix and LA on Wednesday night or Tuesday night whatever they play.
Mike Quigley:That's a good thing.
Jim Quigley:The band in LeBron yeah.
Mike Quigley:Can't wait. I was not into this. I still think the courts look stupid. For the most part, I love the Pake floor. I don't know why they had to change that up, but I understand. It's like a branding thing, especially early on. Yeah, I am hooked in. And what else are you going to do in December? Right now, the Patriots suck.
Jim Quigley:Yeah, so.
Mike Quigley:I think for the Celtics, I think ultimately, I want to talk about this game. I'm excited that they go on the road to play in Indiana to me right now. I think they have some work to do on the road. I like facing a little bit of adversity for a team like Boston. Go ahead, mike.
Jim Quigley:Yeah, I think that this can help the Celtics as they prepare for a playoff run. I do think Indiana is going to be treating this like their championship and I think the crowd is too For guys like Peyton Pritchard, for guys like Sam Hauser and Karnat, who may have to play minutes at some point on the road in the playoffs say Kristoffer, and this is hurt and can't play a game. For example, are Banton Banton's been against them in some minutes now. This is really good experience for them. This tournament. To me, to see a guy like Sam Hauser get those minutes that he didn't get last year very much of that they're going to depend on him this year, so I'm excited for that and to see LeBron and Kevin Durant play in a tournament like this at the end of their careers I think that's pretty cool. I could see them wanting to add this to their repertoire.
Jim Quigley:This is one other thing I want. Lebron definitely. He is such a sociopath that he wants to be the first one to win this tournament. I can guarantee you that this means a lot to him. Lebron James, if we're talking about him, every little thing matters to him. I expect that game to be a war. That's going to be a great game on Tuesday night.
Mike Quigley:Yeah, I know it really should. It really should. And that Celtics-Indiana matchup it's interesting because Indiana is built for the regular season, the way they play offense. They're constantly moving, and when teams aren't really scouting and preparing for you, you can really take advantage of that, especially when you have a really good player like Halliburton, a rise and stop, potentially an all NBA guy. This year I think he probably will be.
Mike Quigley:What usually happens to teams like that is, especially early on in the playoffs, your team scout against you gets a little harder to score, and Indiana doesn't play any defense up to this point of the season, and so how are they going to react with the home crowd behind them? So can the Celtics take the energy out of the building early by playing, taking them out of some actions? Or, if the Celtics don't come with that intensity that you would expect, indiana makes a few shots and the crowd gets into it, and it certainly could be fun. Mike, let's get off the in-season tournament just for a minute. We can certainly go back to it as we proceed, but let's talk about the Celtics. I'm going to start with the encouraging, at least for me. I think a hallmark of a championship team, of a really good team is how they play at home, especially if you want to look for something during the regular season and the Celtics over the past few years it's been good. It hasn't been great, especially early in the season the past few seasons, and I think you've seen that caught up to them in the playoffs where they have not protected them at all, and so what I'm looking at encouraging right now is that they're dominating at home and they're beating the good teams in close games at home and then they're dominating the bad.
Mike Quigley:There is seems to be, whether they would acknowledge it or not. There seems to be an emphasis this year for this team that they're not going to get beat there and there isn't going to be the Nets meltdown when they're up 30 and they lose by eight or whatever. There seems to be a pretty good focus when they're playing on their home court, I think and they haven't had they've had more road games, I believe, than home games so far this year. But whatever the 6-0, 7-0, and then after the season tournament, they get a good stretch. Starting Friday night they get Philly, they get a couple of games against Cleveland and a couple of games against Orlando, so we'll see if this continues as they face pretty good teams, but they've been excellent at home and that's my good. To start off, I think it's a really important sign. I think it's a really good sign, and go wherever you want with that, mike, or talk about something else, thank you.
Jim Quigley:I certainly agree with that. I mean the 2008 championship team. If we go back to the last team that won the NBA finals, it was like you knew when you were coming to Boston, yeah, that you weren't gonna win and that that was like a Hallmark trade of that team, yeah, look at me, I'm so sick, you know, at home too.
Mike Quigley:Yeah, yeah, I think they were.
Jim Quigley:Yeah, I mean, they didn't lose a home. They lost one home postseason game on their run to the Detroit Pistons and that was it. That always team, and that was like a shot to the gut because it just wasn't expected to happen. And luckily, of course, they won on the road to take that series. But I Agree, like that is that is really great to see. One thing I think their next step is Finishing off these teams at home a little bit better. Like don't give them any hope, just like crush them and then on the road. So they're, they're challenged for this team. Something that they need to improve upon Is they have leads on the road, oftentimes big leads, and they blow them pretty quickly and so what is happening?
Jim Quigley:You know, especially against bad, but it's like the bad happen against a really good team in Orlando, right, yeah, so so, like, what is what is the mentality, what is what needs to change there? And I'm interested to see that they played really well without Christoph Borzingus, but I'm interested to see how not in Orlando.
Jim Quigley:They didn't know in Orlando. But I'm interested to see the impact of that because Al's playing a lot of minutes right now and he's playing really well. How's Missoula gonna address that? Because first test is Friday night Philadelphia at home. That's a big test without KP and you don't have Grant Williams. You don't have Rob Williams to step in and assist anymore with Embiid.
Mike Quigley:Al's kind of on an island.
Jim Quigley:Yeah, yeah, yeah, al's really on an island and you know that that to me feels like a game that the Celtics could lose at home, just because they're really outmatched at that position going into Friday night. So you know, one of the concerns I want to address is KP's injury and the need for him for that. For them to win a championship, they need him. Yeah, because they don't have the depth at that position and Al's just too Two seasons in his career to depend on him, as we saw in the postseason last year. Well, I'm older than Al Horford, so I can't call him old. Yeah, well, he's old for the NBA.
Mike Quigley:I'm older, yeah, he's old. For the NBA. I I yeah, sure, and like this injury itself, it doesn't sound like it's too serious. I know prosengas was on the telecast last night in the first half. They they had him on, I think, in the second quarter and he said he anticipates being back either Friday night, definitely the Fallen week. So I wouldn't rush him at all. And you know anything low I have for the body, take as much time as you want.
Mike Quigley:This time of year Half strains can turn into, you know. You know serious strains pretty quickly if you don't treat him right. So if he's not a hundred percent Friday night I certainly wouldn't play him. I think it would be a tough game. But he's not a great matchup for Posingas either. You know they used him in different ways to kind of help on on and he's not a great matchup from beat either. I'm sorry. I said not a great matchup for Posingas. He's not a great matchup. But prosengas is not a great matchup for him beat either. And I know they used him as help In the last game and he was matched up to him sometimes. But they're gonna have to get creative every time they play him with doubles and triple teams and things like that and what. And where they had trouble I thought in the last couple games is they were out of position often when they went to double and Gave and beat really good passing lanes and for a filly to attack that. So they need to clean up their rotations and they're scrambling on defense when they face indeed, because it's not gonna be easy. You'll see holidays start there with him and then you know off switches to see what they can get matchups. But yeah and beat is it's playing at a different level and even against Al now when he catches that ball to foul line, it's become a layup for him and not even Al can defend that. He's just not big enough to get a hand up on him, so he just presents all sorts of Matchups.
Mike Quigley:I think the best thing the Celtics can do is rebound the basketball on the defensive side against the Sixers and run every chance you get. You know you got to run him. The same kind of the same strategy as you've been seeing for the. You know beats entire career In hoping that you got a guy tugging out his shorts in the fourth quarter rather than dictating the game as we've seen him do from time to time the Celtics. I'll say this no matter what the Celtics have gone into a game against him beat. They've typically been pretty steady, you know, and beads numbers against the Celtics or is probably as worse against any team in the league, and they seem to know how to attack that.
Mike Quigley:I just think the difference this year With the Sixers is an end bead. It isn't Embed at a different level or anything else, as you put, even though you could probably make an argument he's a little better. It's that I think his number two is better than he's ever had. I think Maxi is better than Simmons at any points in Simmons career there as far as a fit with Embed, and certainly he's better than Haddon and I, you know, the only one you could argue that might have been at another level was Jimmy Butler, and so you see a guy in Maxi right now that Can impact the game on the offensive end, unlike anyone they've had there, you know, quite a while or if at all.
Mike Quigley:And the best way for the Celtics to attack that is what they did the second time they played the Sixers was to put Maxi in as much action on the On the defensive end as possible. They just kept finding him and attacking him all game long and and because he's? He's just not built for that yet, and I think that's where you got to continue to do so. Hey, friday night. Sixers. This is, this is a really good team, but Celtics even showed handed at home. I'd expect them to be favorites and I expect them to win.
Jim Quigley:You know, um, yeah, I also expect that you'll see some. You'll see some possessions where Drew Holiday is Covering drill the well, indeed, I did that the first. Yeah, yeah, which is just crazy that this, that guy's such a unique player that he can do things like that.
Mike Quigley:Well, they used to do that with smart quite a bit too, and yeah, I know it's.
Jim Quigley:Yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's great. I don't have any more like Celtic points to really go over right.
Mike Quigley:I think the thing that was concerning to me on the South.
Jim Quigley:I was gonna say something yeah, just that, for me it's, it's. I want them to overcome this. This is going on for years now, three different coaches, this lack of focus, this lack of intensity and this inability to stop runs that just get out of control way too fast. That's 17, or run against the Lando, and then you follow that up in the fourth quarter with a 12 will run. So 29 to 0.
Jim Quigley:Yeah if you, you know, and I know there's other, there's other third quarters that I'm just missing right now, but like that one obviously really stands out. And if you, if you think back to last year, they they blew that 28 Point lead against the Nets. They gave up like that 30 point second half the mile sterner on the road and there was just these like bad losses and it did Translate into the playoffs where it hurt them that the third quarter against Miami, the second quarter against Miami, end of game situations blowing the lead against the Atlanta Hawks, where that that series got extended what it didn't have to. So it's like this immaturity where it Tatum and Brown and poor zinc Well, poor zinc, it's just part of it. Now they need to really, really step up and and and do better or they're not gonna win a championship.
Mike Quigley:Yeah, no, it needs to be better. Like it's, I find it to be huge concern and I I don't love the fact that the coach doesn't seem to really change anything when these things are happening. You know, we let a 17-0 run go pretty much without a timeout or any real substitutions. You know, sometimes it's just a matter of, you know, going through the bench and trying to get a spark to lift your team up Doesn't always work, timeouts don't always work. But I think you need to do something and certainly Tatum, it's kind of the next step, you know, is for him, you know, to kind of step up and get this team out of this funk, you know, and to hit a big basket To get make sure your team gets a good look.
Mike Quigley:And I find, like it's, you know, the trouble and thing to me, and what I was gonna bring out, mike, is that when these runs start, it's oftentimes kind of they've had the start of the team going on the run the Celtics offense. The looks they get are usually pretty good and they just misses and they let that kind of spiral. Instead of just continue to run the offense we just got good looks, let's continue to run it how we get, because this is the NBA, eventually those are gonna fall. If we defend, if we defensive rebound and we continue to, you know, move the ball, get prosingers in action, whatever they're doing to get those good looks. You continue that repetition. Maybe those 17 or runs I just an 80 run or it's a 10 to run, and those runs happen all the time in the NBA, right, those are just. Those are common runs 17. Nothing is unacceptable. Losing a 16 point lead in Philadelphia in the blink of an eye, you can't do that.
Mike Quigley:Those are things that as a good team, they need to be mature enough to not let it go.
Mike Quigley:They need to be mature enough to not let it kind of unravel them. And I think that was particularly true in Orlando and that first run in that third quarter the looks they were getting were good, they just missed them and then they went away from it and then all of a sudden they're not defensive rebounding and then all of a sudden they give it up. You know, fast break looks to Orlando and it just kind of spiraled. And maybe that's where the coach needs to call a timeout when it's six nothing or eight nothing and he sees that one possession where they go down for an ISO 3 and say, hey, get back to how we were playing, because, you know, even though we're not making them their good shots and they're eventually gonna fall, and the Celtic seem to just kind of, you know, they've been doing this for too long to be immature in those situations and so they need to grow up and hopefully they will you know they have to, are they not gonna?
Jim Quigley:I mean they can't play that way. It's it's a lack of focus, it's a lack of maturity. They need to figure it out. I mean, even in Toronto the second game against Toronto they had a huge lead and they blew a 16 point lead in the third quarter in like three minutes, yeah, and then that game went down to the wire.
Mike Quigley:Memphis as well.
Jim Quigley:Yeah, memphis to the Hornets as well, and then you lost that game. I mean talk about things we've seen in the past. That's so concerning with this team is you didn't score for the last two minutes of regulation against Memphis, I mean against the Charlotte Hornets, and you gave up that lead. They went on a nine oh run and then it was over.
Jim Quigley:Yeah, it was a lot of being out. Yeah, was a lot of just being out worked by Mark Williams, the center that was. I mean, it was hot, but you were just being out worked.
Mike Quigley:And that one, I mean to be fair, was a little fluky to. I mean they missed two layups down the final two minutes and so that we've seen this yeah. Yeah.
Jim Quigley:So I do have to get off pretty soon, jim. My last thing I just wanted to share this with the NBA as a whole is that the Houston Rockets and EMA play in defense. It just shows like how good of a coach that guy is to see the improvement already at the beginning of the season. And that team that had zero interest in doing anything last year was surprising to me to see where they're at. And then what's going to happen with OKC? Okc has been one of the best teams to watch. I think SGA is an MVP candidate in this story with Josh Giddy. To see where that goes. I don't want to get into it. I just want to say like, if it's true and he's in trouble, talk about a superstar in the making that they could not have, like possibly not have in their team anymore. Be interested to see what happens with that situation.
Mike Quigley:Well, I think you know you bring up two guys. You know different situations, but EMA obviously had his problems, giddy his situation. Now you had Miles Bridges, kevin Porter, all different scenarios, all different.
Mike Quigley:But the league. Really they better be careful when it's right now. They have too many guys out there that are in the spotlight, that have bad history, that involve women and you know, and so it's kind of I know you didn't do it on purpose, ema Giddy, this way, but it like and I don't know exactly how you handle it I always go back to. I think teams deserve penalties when you bring in a guy like EMA. You bring in a guy like Miles Bridges, if you sign him going forward to your team and he does it again. Maybe you got to be dark to pick, maybe you got to lose a second round. It's something so that it's not just the person that commits the foul receives a penalty, that the team fails some pain to. And as far as Josh Giddy goes, the accusations to me are pretty serious, you know, based on the.
Mike Quigley:Yeah very yeah, and I just I think the NBA they have a lot of guys they can market. It seems like a lot of good guys in the league, but this relationship between these men and their behavior towards women I think is a real problem. Major League Baseball had this problem a few years ago and they stiffen their penalties and I think it served the sport well and I think maybe the NBA has to kind of look at something like that soon.
Jim Quigley:Yeah, and it's just like so awkward to see these interviews with Giddy and then with OKC staff. It's just they're all kind of like tiptoeing around it. It better not be true if you're OKC, because it's bad man. It is really. It's a bad situation, Like I think it would be best that he not play right now. That's how I feel. I just think it would be best that he not play.
Mike Quigley:Yeah, where he has not been charged with anything, you get into it.
Jim Quigley:I don't know how they can do that with the union and where the union steps in, I get it. I get it. I'm just saying just overall. Yeah, you know, if I, if I was in charge of everything and I had a magic wand, it would be. You're not playing until this is figured out.
Mike Quigley:Yeah, yeah it's. It's clearly not good, and I think it's. I think it's an issue that the league really needs to take a deeper look into, you know, and how they handle it.
Jim Quigley:Yeah, maybe I'm an idiot, jim. I never really understood what happened with email, like I never got the full story, or maybe I wasn't paying attention enough, Like I felt like I never got the details. But yeah, if he did something awful too, then I'm sorry for not bringing that up. I was just bringing up the basketball in the coaching in Houston, but I've never really understood exactly what happened.
Mike Quigley:But yeah, yeah, I think it was he. He had a relationship with a woman in the workplace who was married and she definitely has some responsibilities in this too. She's an adult. From what I understand and it sounds like from what you read, read to that he tried to continue things when he was told not to. So again, I don't look at it's not on the same par, but it's clearly. Yeah, no, it's not not something you want. He needs to be held to account at a higher level than players are.
Jim Quigley:this can't happen Anyone that's, yeah, you know.
Mike Quigley:So that's right, yeah, so all right we'll talk soon. Got real serious stuff the in season frigging awesome. I hated it. Now I'm all in and I want to see the bucks. I know you're excited about the paces, but I want to see the buck Celtics next Thursday night. I think that would be really, really cool. I'll be thoroughly disappointed if we don't. So that that's. That's my two cents and for everyone else.
Jim Quigley:And then Lakers Celtics in Vegas couple Saturdays from now.
Mike Quigley:All right, it'll be a road game which will be cool. All right, I'll talk to everyone soon.